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An old Ox needs help with move to blackbox32

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Ted Ellison, Oct 3, 2024.

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  1. Ted Ellison

    Ted Ellison New
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    Ok, I have an old ox machine that has been running using tinyg v8 and chilipepper. I decided to move to a newer controller and almost have things working. The last step is to get my 300w quiet spindle working. I can get it to spin up using the variable speed control knob but nothing when using pwm from the blackbox.

    I'm hoping that the problem is with the jrbl settings but I don't seem to be smart enough to get them set correctly. I've been stubbornly working on this for over a week, even ordering a replacement pwm controller.

    If I measure the voltage at the pmw controller I always get 10 volts no matter the speed I send (mm3 s12000 or m3 s5000).

    It's tough to live with stupidity, so any help you guys can provide is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Ted
     
    #1 Ted Ellison, Oct 3, 2024
  2. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    PWM output is 3.3v. If you wired the PWM output to a 0-10v input, it would have been damaged, explaining the always on state.
    Can also be damaged by shorts, or backfed voltage from a spindle controller. Sadly if the damage is done, there's nothing you can do

    Pwm or 0-10 = two different signals entirely and important to use the correct one the spindle controller needs. Also double check spindle controller has no stray voltages present at its input, those cheap modified PSUs are quite notorious
     
    #2 Peter Van Der Walt, Oct 4, 2024
  3. Ted Ellison

    Ted Ellison New
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    Thank you Peter. I'll do all that you suggest. I realize you guys have moved on from these spindles and perhaps I will eventually do that as well. In the meantime is there somewhere that I can get information on the correct grbl settings and wiring to operate one of these cheap spindles?

    The pwm board that I have (actually have two) properly controls the motor speed using their speed control knob and changing the jumper.

    As soon as I can I'll check what's going on with my wiring between the blackbox pwk terminal and the pwm board.

    Again all help is appreciated.

    Ted
     
    #3 Ted Ellison, Oct 4, 2024
  4. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Search on forum here should have some, Grbl settings = stock default. Wiring = whatever the spindle documentation tells you
     
    #4 Peter Van Der Walt, Oct 4, 2024
  5. Ted Ellison

    Ted Ellison New
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    Hello Peter,

    I was able to go out to my machine and make new measurements. I disconnected the pwm wires from the pwm controller. When I then tested the voltage coming from the blackbox pwm connectors I get 10v. What am I doing wron? Should be about 3.3v I believe.

    Thanks,

    Ted
     
    #5 Ted Ellison, Oct 4, 2024
  6. Ted Ellison

    Ted Ellison New
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    I notice in the blackbox specifications it says pwm output for laser modules. Only for laser modules? What about dc spindles?
     
    #6 Ted Ellison, Oct 4, 2024
  7. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    How sure are you you are measuring the correct terminals?


    "DC spindles" (various models, various inputs, various levels of quality) - some might accept 3.3v PWM, some needs a 0-10v signal, some needs 5V PWM, etc. Usually labelled or documented on 'spindle' PSU
     
    #7 Peter Van Der Walt, Oct 4, 2024
  8. Ted Ellison

    Ted Ellison New
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    When I issue an m3 command I can hear, I believe, the relay click. I see in the documentation there are jumpers to disable the relay and send pwm out the pwm connection. When I open the blackbox I only see a couple jumpers. No relay jumpers. What am I missing?

    Thanks,

    Ted
     
    #8 Ted Ellison, Oct 4, 2024
  9. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    The older BlackBox 4X Documentation?

    Sounds more like a newer BlackBox X32 (read the right one's docs)

    On the X32:
    Relay1 = tool enable
    Relay2 = spindle direction
    PWM is seperate output

    Review docs:blackbox-x32:layout [OpenBuilds Documentation] to learn more about what's where
     
    #9 Peter Van Der Walt, Oct 4, 2024
  10. Ted Ellison

    Ted Ellison New
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    I'm reading doc for 32 Screenshot_20241004_120312_Edge.jpg
     
    #10 Ted Ellison, Oct 4, 2024
  11. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Thats the old 4X docs

    upload_2024-10-4_21-10-15.png

    X32 does not have all those sections (Slave driver not a jumper anymore, relay not a jumper anymore, RGB LED removed as X32 has a Blue fixed color fan now, etc)

    upload_2024-10-4_21-10-59.png

    Plus, you've checked inside, it doesn't have those jumpers...
     
    #11 Peter Van Der Walt, Oct 4, 2024
  12. Ted Ellison

    Ted Ellison New
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    I'm extremely frustrated by now. I jumped on the forum looking for help.

    I feel as though I am being punished for wanting to use a "cheap dc spindle and cheap unreliable pwm board from china".

    So is it possible to use a DC spindle? If so, how about some help instead of using your punishment insults.

    You must be in marketing as you continue to push all of your new products.

    I liked what I saw with control and decided to try it so I purchased your blackbox. Quite honestly, doesn't do much more than a tinyg v8 except it has its own fan and runs more current grbl.

    Ted
     
    #12 Ted Ellison, Oct 4, 2024
  13. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    It is, IF the controller is wired to the controller correctly (0-10v vs PWM depending on what that spindle needs as there are different versions out there) AND if the spindle controller didn't cause damage (sadly they are notorious, so its always a possibility)
    If it didn't malfunction, and you didn't accidentally wire it up wrong, it should still be salvageable.

    Speaking of help, you never really answered my question in your other thread:

    (we should probably move these posts in there, didn't even realise its you as I started to reply to new thread, best to keep conversations in one thread)

    The one about are you sure you are measuring the correct output? Can't see 10v on the PWM port thats sort of impossible (if you had enough damage that a 10v signal is coming out of the 3.3v ports the microcontroller would be so fried it would be completely dead) - pretty sure that you are measuring the 0-10v port not the PWM port

    Then the next question would have been pics of the spindle controller to see if it needs PWM or 0-10v and then you just had to wire up the correct one.

    I am still fearful that there was damage as the 10v (even if measured at the 0-10v port) is not changing, so if you did have any incorrect wiring (like wiring a 0-10v spindle input to a 3.3v PWM or the other way round 3.3v PWM input to the 0-10v output) it might still have damage


    Most of those PSUs for the DC motor spindles have onboard input, what is this PWM board then?
     
    #13 Peter Van Der Walt, Oct 4, 2024

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