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7050 Sphinx

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Michael.M, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    While surfing the Open Builds Forum I discovered a business local to me named Automation Technologies. The business is a distributor of CNC machine components of all kinds. I think I found the hardware you specified on their web site. If I buy from them I save on shipping costs.

    I spoke to the owner and visited the warehouse and saw a CNC router they sell that's completely built and includes everything. The web site lists the price at $3000 and he said he'd sell it for $2400. Only thing is I really want to build my own.
     
  2. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    Is it their 6090 router?
     
  3. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    Personally, if I could go back and change something, I would build a machine using openbuilds extrusions and source linear rails & ballscrews somewhere. Openbuilds has stood behind their products and quickly resolved any issues I've had. You basically get a warranty from openbuilds.
     
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  4. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    That's the one...as I said I too want to build my own. My reasons for wanting to build my own are that I want it configured my way for one, building it teaches me a lot, and if it breaks I can it makes it easier to fix...plus building it is fun.
     
  5. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    Let me be more clear about the purchases I've made:
    Complete Openbuilds Sphinx parts $1,300
    Blue Ox Plates $300
    Spindle / VFD $300
    Phoenix CNC controller $60
    Wiring $60

    I've added other extras and also have many parts I didn't use so this build can be done for cheaper than the $3500. I added a cast tooling plate that was $200.
     
  6. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    That helps a lot! Thank you.

    My plan is to purchase the spindle and VFD and related components through Automation Technologies, Inc. though I may look into acquiring higher torque Stepper Motors from there as well.
     
    #186 Sprags, Jan 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  7. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    Upon more research the spindles at Automation Technologies are 220v motors so it looks like the spindle/VFD Kit you specified is the better choice.

    I'm thinking that rather than using the stepper motors from Open Build that a higher torque motor would be better. Suggestions or advice?

    Are one of the controller boards from Open Builds a good board to use over others? Will it work with a variable speed spindle or if there is something better can you make a recommendation? How about stepper motor drivers?

    The electronics are going to be the biggest hurdle to get over but I'm sure I can work my way through it.

    I wish there was a simple straightforward instructions for wiring everything up.
     
  8. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    I'm using the Phoenix CNC controller. You can find it on tindie. I had no problems interfacing with my VFD.
     
  9. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    The Phoenix CNC board looks nice. I’m ordering 1 tonight after work along with the spindle/VFD kit.

    Thank you for all your help
     
  10. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    No problem. Hayri, the designer of that controller, is really helpful. It's a solid board. The vfd to controller wiring took some trial and error but it works great now and I can show you exactly what to do.
     
  11. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    As for the motors and drivers, I went with the dq542 drivers and high torque nema 23. They're running off a single 24v psu but I would like to upgrade this to 48v.
     
  12. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    Would a stepper with even more torque be better than the ones Openbuilds offers ? I would think a stepper with more torque would be able to handle moving the machine axis around more smoothly and with less of a struggle.
     
  13. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    I would imagine so. Maybe something in the range of 425 oz/in? That plus a 48v PSU and I don't think you'd run into any issues.
     
  14. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    Just make sure you get the correct drivers. Im actually not even able to push these drivers to their limits because the steppers wouldn't have it.
     
  15. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    I personally haven't run into any issues with the high torque steppers yet.
     
  16. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    Oh if you're planning on using linear rails, Chris from Blue Ox will do custom work also.
     
  17. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    Ok...thanks again
     
  18. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    I believe the thing to also keep an eye on, when choosing a stepper, is the power band it produces the best torque in.
    You will usually find a graph showing where that particular stepper performs at its' best.
    So the type of work you will want it to do, i.e. slow but deep cuts as against fast and shallow cuts, could have a baring on the choice of stepper to some degree. So, a high torque stepper as supplied by O.B is a middle of the road unit, designed for general everyday work, with a wide power band to suit a variety of materials.
     
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  19. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    I agree, I really feel like I still have plenty of room to work with and I'll probably have issues with machine rigidity before hit the limits of these steppers.
     
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  20. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    Nowadays most commercial machine practices are moving away from machine parts by going slow but taking big heavy cuts...especially for aluminum.

    The new methods have adopted high speed machining practices...smaller stopovers, lighter depths of cut...trochoidal milling ...etc etc etc blah blah blah . So high torque is probably not as necessary now but I think I’d rather have the ability to handle a heavier cut if needed. I’m at work. When I get home I’ll look at the different steppers available.
     
  21. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    I'll be interested to follow your progress. I'm going to be making some changes to improve overall machine rigidity and after that, I'll be able to give a more accurate opinion on these steppers
     
  22. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    Having a well built rigid machine is always a plus.
     
  23. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    OK...i am just about ready to hit the buy button on the OpenBuilds store and decided to ask a question before sending money.

    Because of the standard lengths of aluminum extruded rails and the lead screws I am of the belief that to make things easier on myself I want to build the machine with the X-Axis using a 500 mm C-Beam, the Y-Axis using two 1000 mm C-Beams and the Z-Axis using a 250 mm C-Beam. And of course the lead screws would be the ones from Open Builds that are defined at 500 mm, 1000 mm and 250 mm respectively. I understand that they are longer than specified. Am I right in thinking they are longer than the sizes specified because the screw ends are designed to fit into the bearing on one end and attached to the Stepper Motor on the other end with flexible couplings or pulleys and a belt on the other end?

    Are the rails as purchased require modifying to bring them to the size needed and do they need to be tapped for attaching end caps?

    Thank you.
     
    #203 Sprags, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  24. CNCMD

    CNCMD Journeyman
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    Yes that is exactly why. On the bottom of the leadscrew page there are the actual lengths. I think the 500mm is actually 540, the extra 40mm allows for it to pass through/into the bearings and then the remaining extends out to be connected to the coupler that connects to the stepper.
     
  25. Sprags

    Sprags Well-Known
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    I put off hitting the 'BUY' button for a few days now just to make sure I have everything and per the built list i have almost everything I need.
    I rounded up on a few of the smaller items to try to make sure i don't come up short.

    I did make a few revisions to the design and I may revise things one more time based on the response I get.
    I am thinking that I want a Y-axis that is 1000 mm in length so I ordered 2 1000 mm C-Beams, a 500 mm X-Axis so I ordered 1 500 mm C-Beam and a 250 mm Z-Axis so I ordered a 250 mm C-Beam for that. Do the C-Beams come in longer or are they cut to those exact dimensions (within a fairly close tolerance). I'm thinking I should really have a more square machine so the Y-Axis is 750 mm and the X-Axis is 600 mm or 750 mm. Do the rails as purchased come with the ends already threaded?

    Should the frame everything sits on made from the 20 x 60 mm V-Slot extruded shapes be the overall outside dimensions of the y-axis by x-axis lengths?
    I am thinking that if the purchased rails come already threaded that if possible I would like to avoid cutting if could so i would leave the c-beams alone yet cut the 20 x 60 rails to the lengths required to make sure everything fits as it should without bending or twisting.
     
  26. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    The x axis needs to be 503mm then. This is to allow a 1.5mm gap between the gantry plates and the side of the machine. I'm not sure if the extrusions are oversized a little?
     
  27. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    Nevermind mind this if you're going with a longer x axis. The extrusions do come tapped but it's not difficult to tap them if need be. If you're going with 1000mm y axis, I would think 700mm for the x would be proportionate.
     
  28. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    Just keep in mind that as you increase the length of your x axis, you loose rigidity. Especially if you're hanging a heavy water cooled spindle off of it.
     
  29. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    There are things you can do to counter this of course.
     
  30. Michael.M

    Michael.M Veteran
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    Personally if I were going with 1000mm on the y axis, the max I would do is 700-750mm on the x axis. The x axis is the one you have to worry about the most.
     

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