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Problem with limit sensors, double triggering

Discussion in 'OpenBuilds Forum Help' started by SergioGil, Jul 5, 2023.

  1. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    I have a BlackBox x32 and openbuilds limit sensors. The limit switches sensors throw alarm when pressed but also when released, causing a double alarm.
    I mean that the sensor triggers the alarm with a change of state and not just when pressed.
     
  2. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Are you testing by hand, or with the machine - it shouldn't trigger if you jog out of the switch (unless you have X plugged into Y or Z, or similar - swopped so the correct switch is not on the correct axis)
     
  3. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    I have tried it with my custom machine but with the complete openbuilds kit. When you reach the end and press the sensor, all the movement stops and throws the alarm at me, I clean the alarm and when the movement returns it releases the sensor but when you release it, it throws the alarm again as if it were pressed again. I have checked and the sensors are connected correctly in the axes.
     

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  4. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    As its custom, post a Grbl Settings backup for review please
     
  5. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    These are my settings, thanks for your reply.
     

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  6. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Try a 10mm pull-off
    Currently $27=5.000 ; Homing switch pull-off distance, millimeters

    Our Xtension Limits too right?
     
  7. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    I tried with 10, 15 and 20 mm and I still have the same problem
     
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Confirm?

    Pics of all limits wiring please (both ends)?
     
  9. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    The purchased kit only brought 3 end-of-travel sensors, one per axis, a simple configuration. All three are connected at the same time in their correct positions.
     

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  10. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    I have tried with a sensor from another brand and it has the same behavior.
    Apparently, when it detects the sensor that is pressed, it throws the alarm and when removing said alarm, the last state of the sensor is saved, having a change of state again, which is when the sensor is stopped being pressed, said change is detected and stops all movement again.

    I don't know if I'm using the sensors wrong or I have to do some extra configuration.
     

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  11. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    I notice the switches are installed without their top cover, possibly also without the isolating rubber washer. It could be creating a ground loop by having metal fastner on the inside pad (suppose to touch the nylon spacer on one side and rubber spacer on the other) connecting it to the machine in turn.

    See docs:xtensions:limits [OpenBuilds Documentation]


    No, the firmware always allows you to exit the switch. It doesn't react to the state change, only to an activation and only after pull off distance. As a sidenote, how are you jogging off it? Big enough move (don't try a tonne of 1mm moves for example, use Continuous or a large increment)
     
  12. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    I am going to try to put the upper layers of the sensors and I will test how it works. I do the tests with continuous movement. In a few moments I'll tell you how it went. Thanks.
     
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  13. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Thanks, its an odd one, hopefully this helps
     
  14. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    I have already placed the covers on the sensors and with the insulating rubber they have been placed on the structure. Unfortunately I keep getting the same unwanted behavior. Any other solution ideas? As I told you, with the same connection mode but with a sensor from another brand I also have the same result.
     
  15. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Did you try the large enough move yet? It should ignore the first move out of the switch

    Any chance you get a false trigger from EMI when its moving? (limits wiring away from motor and power wires?)
     
  16. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    That's right, I have tested with all the displacement of my table that is 3m. The sensor starts pressed in position 0.00 and when the movement starts it stops just when the sensor is released, which is approximately 3mm. We do not have any machine that generates EMI and the cables are separated from each other.

    Is there any configuration to indicate that the sensors are to detect the zero position or the limit of the movement?
     
  17. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Nothing customizable, and the more important though - hard limits works fine for almost everyone right off the bat. Something is unique in your setup and we haven't see what's different just yet.

    For Homing the zero point is the trigger point of the limit. For Hard Limits, they are seen as triggered as long as the pin is pulled low. When it goes high again, its OFF. You can use the Troubleshooting tab to see this.

    Does it happen on all axes or only one?

    To rule out settings we can try:

    1) Take a backup of your current setting
    2) Do a factory reset (Wizards and Tools > Firmware flashing > X32 > Flash and ERASE settings > Flash
    (Make sure to use CONTROL V1.0.370)
    3) Load one of our stock profiles (Minimill or LEAD or similar) and give that a test - distances will be off of course - so perhaps ONLY update steps per mm off the current values. Don't change anything else

    If it still occurs, we know the settings are fine too
     
    #17 Peter Van Der Walt, Jul 7, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2023
  18. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    Cua

    What is the difference between hard limits and home limits?

    When the movement finds the sensor and presses it, the alarm is:
    ALARM: 1 - Hard limit triggered. Machine position is likely lost due to sudden and immediate halt. Re-homing is highly recommended. [ undefined ]

    And when I release the sensor when I try to return the movement, the alarm is:
    ALARM: 3 - Reset while in motion. Grbl cannot guarantee position. Lost steps are likely. Re-homing is highly recommended.


    I have the error:
    [Starting...]

    [14:56:47] [ Firmware Upgrade ] env: python: No such file or directory

    [14:56:47] [ Firmware Upgrade ] [exit:127]

    [14:56:47] [ Firmware Upgrade ] Firmware Update FAILED! Please review the logs above, or try again
     
  19. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Now that is of importance, I was under the impression it retriggers the Hard Limit.

    Reset means your controller shut down and started back up again for some reason. Typical causes being short in V+/GND or PSU issue. Something seems to be dropping your controller just as the switch releases. Try disconnecting the V+ wire and do a test.

    Try a windows PC or fix Python on that machine. Less likely needed now that we have the new clue though so we can skip it (for now, you do still want up to date firmware though)
     
  20. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    I have updated the firmware, I have changed the settings to a stock machine (LEAD 1515), the movement is logically different but the behavior of the sensors is the same.

    Sometimes alarms 1 and 3 are activated regardless of whether the sensor is pressed or released, sometimes the alarm 1 is activate when pressed or released the sensor.

    When you say "disconnect the V+ cable" are you referring to the V+ cable of each sensor or the V+ of the general power supply?
     
  21. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Yes, from the limits.


    Also good to know - sounds a lot less like a limits issue as more info comes out.

    Alarm 3 would come up any time the controller randomly reboots mid move
     
  22. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    I have already tried removing the V+ from the sensors but it seems that they are still working the same, they are activated by pressing and sending a signal, even without the power. And the double-activation behavior is still. Something to add, my plasma is low frequency and when it is on cutting it also triggers the alarm that an limits sensors has been activated, sometimes
     
  23. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Have you tried an air-cut with plasma inverter off? Just a test to see if the 2nd alarm (reset) related to EMI
     
  24. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    Yes, the second alarm is related with EMI because when plasma is off, that alarm don’t show up. It’s necessary isolate the sensors?
    And the double triggered persist in my system even without the V+ wire.
     
  25. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Now, main thing would be that the plasma is causing an adverse effect. Are you sure it really is blowback? Sounds like HF symptoms.

    Yes, as mentioned higher up in the thread, when you declared that the 2nd alarm is not a limits alarm, we've long since moved off the Limits as the likely issue:


    We are troubleshooting why the controller is reset. As its a plasma, EMI most likely

    And thus your latest reply, confirms:


    So lets put the limits thought to bed. You are now looking at resolving abnormal EMI from the Plasma: docs:blackbox-x32:faq-emi [OpenBuilds Documentation]
     
  26. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    What is blowback? In fact my plasma inversor is LF, but I think that it’s a lie.

    Yes, I have tried several cuts / movements in the air with the plasma completely turned off and the double triggered as well as alarm 1 and 3 also appear.
     
  27. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Well, make sure of the facts - we can only help with the details you provide. Earlier you said


    Reliable information can help us help you zoom in. If its NOT the plasma after all, something in your wiring is causing a short or something similar as explained above.

    Watch this video

     
  28. SergioGil

    SergioGil New
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    Is there specific documentation or videos on how to use the limit switch sensors?
     
  29. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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  30. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    If its not there, post pictures of all your wiring. The reset could something like incorrectly wired plasma trigger, etc too - all wiring being motors, PSU, mains, plasma, limits, big picture of the machine in overview so we can look for things we didn't even think to check, etc
    Any and all 3rd party parts etc
     

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